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	<title>Comments on: Words Matter, Says UK Office of Cyber Security</title>
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		<title>By: New US Joint Chiefs Cyber Ops Definitions &#171; ubiwar :: conflict in n dimensions</title>
		<link>http://kingsofwar.org.uk/2010/03/words-matter-says-uk-office-of-cyber-security/comment-page-1/#comment-5166</link>
		<dc:creator>New US Joint Chiefs Cyber Ops Definitions &#171; ubiwar :: conflict in n dimensions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Mar 2010 22:59:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingsofwar.org.uk/?p=3664#comment-5166</guid>
		<description>[...] tags: cyberwar by Tim Stevens   Hot on the heels of announcements that the UK is conducting its own review of &#8216;cyber&#8217; terminology, the US Joint Chiefs of Staff have released a new version of their Information Assurance (IA) and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] tags: cyberwar by Tim Stevens   Hot on the heels of announcements that the UK is conducting its own review of &#8216;cyber&#8217; terminology, the US Joint Chiefs of Staff have released a new version of their Information Assurance (IA) and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: To Cyberwar, Or Not to Cyberwar &#171; ubiwar :: conflict in n dimensions</title>
		<link>http://kingsofwar.org.uk/2010/03/words-matter-says-uk-office-of-cyber-security/comment-page-1/#comment-4925</link>
		<dc:creator>To Cyberwar, Or Not to Cyberwar &#171; ubiwar :: conflict in n dimensions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 09:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingsofwar.org.uk/?p=3664#comment-4925</guid>
		<description>[...] cautious line to this whole cyberwar business, I&#8217;ve just posted again at Kings of War, Words Matter, Says UK Office of Cyber Security. I had already written an earlier piece suggesting exactly such a difference between US and UK [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] cautious line to this whole cyberwar business, I&#8217;ve just posted again at Kings of War, Words Matter, Says UK Office of Cyber Security. I had already written an earlier piece suggesting exactly such a difference between US and UK [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Formerly Grant</title>
		<link>http://kingsofwar.org.uk/2010/03/words-matter-says-uk-office-of-cyber-security/comment-page-1/#comment-4918</link>
		<dc:creator>Formerly Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingsofwar.org.uk/?p=3664#comment-4918</guid>
		<description>I imagine we&#039;ll start to get agreements on what is and is not acceptable shortly after the next big war. True there were some agreements on some weapons prior to their actual use in World War I (such as poisonous gas and submarines I believe), but those agreements didn&#039;t hold up and new ones were needed after the end of the war. Similarly laws concerning whether cities can be bombed weren&#039;t largely established (and broken when possible) until after the Second World War. In other words, war spurs legal developments as much as technological ones.

On that note has anyone written up what might be a viable agreement on the use of the internet and warfare?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I imagine we&#8217;ll start to get agreements on what is and is not acceptable shortly after the next big war. True there were some agreements on some weapons prior to their actual use in World War I (such as poisonous gas and submarines I believe), but those agreements didn&#8217;t hold up and new ones were needed after the end of the war. Similarly laws concerning whether cities can be bombed weren&#8217;t largely established (and broken when possible) until after the Second World War. In other words, war spurs legal developments as much as technological ones.</p>
<p>On that note has anyone written up what might be a viable agreement on the use of the internet and warfare?</p>
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		<title>By: From the Listening Post&#8230; 03/17/2010 (p.m.) &#171; Sean Lawson, Ph.D.</title>
		<link>http://kingsofwar.org.uk/2010/03/words-matter-says-uk-office-of-cyber-security/comment-page-1/#comment-4916</link>
		<dc:creator>From the Listening Post&#8230; 03/17/2010 (p.m.) &#171; Sean Lawson, Ph.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:32:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingsofwar.org.uk/?p=3664#comment-4916</guid>
		<description>[...] Words Matter, Says UK Office of Cyber Security [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Words Matter, Says UK Office of Cyber Security [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Does IRGC Hacking Count as Terrorist Attack? No. &#171; Sean Lawson, Ph.D.</title>
		<link>http://kingsofwar.org.uk/2010/03/words-matter-says-uk-office-of-cyber-security/comment-page-1/#comment-4906</link>
		<dc:creator>Does IRGC Hacking Count as Terrorist Attack? No. &#171; Sean Lawson, Ph.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:24:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingsofwar.org.uk/?p=3664#comment-4906</guid>
		<description>[...] response more difficult.&#8221;&#160; Tim Stevens of the blogs Ubiwar and Kings of War agrees, and writes, words matter when it comes to describing risks and threats, and they frame the debates thus [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] response more difficult.&#8221;&nbsp; Tim Stevens of the blogs Ubiwar and Kings of War agrees, and writes, words matter when it comes to describing risks and threats, and they frame the debates thus [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Stevens</title>
		<link>http://kingsofwar.org.uk/2010/03/words-matter-says-uk-office-of-cyber-security/comment-page-1/#comment-4895</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Stevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingsofwar.org.uk/?p=3664#comment-4895</guid>
		<description>Formerly Grant / Gunrunner,

Yup, you&#039;re both right, although I dispute the analogy of the Zeros. It&#039;s difficult to simply transfer analogies between the physical and the cyber domains. But, yes, it does matter what we call things, how we interpret them, and how we then decide to respond, and with what. 

It&#039;s worth pointing out that there&#039;s a live debate in this field about attribution, which is hedged around with numerous &#039;ifs&#039; and &#039;buts&#039;. One of the elements in this discussion is whether circumstantial evidence is sufficient to ascribe responsibility for attacks to particular actors. Evidence can look compelling but might turn out to be false, as it did last July, when DPRK looked the obvious culprit but seemed to have little to do with the events that compromised US and ROK assets. That matter is still unresolved.

If cyber is to be considered under the Laws of Armed Conflict, it has to meet the conditions of military necessity, distinction, proportionality, discrimination, perfidy, and neutrality. It is less than clear how these conditions are met and respected by cyber ops. So, I agree, there are big issues to tackle here, but I&#039;m fairly certain that declaring war rather than a more nuanced approach is not useful at this stage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Formerly Grant / Gunrunner,</p>
<p>Yup, you&#8217;re both right, although I dispute the analogy of the Zeros. It&#8217;s difficult to simply transfer analogies between the physical and the cyber domains. But, yes, it does matter what we call things, how we interpret them, and how we then decide to respond, and with what. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s worth pointing out that there&#8217;s a live debate in this field about attribution, which is hedged around with numerous &#8216;ifs&#8217; and &#8216;buts&#8217;. One of the elements in this discussion is whether circumstantial evidence is sufficient to ascribe responsibility for attacks to particular actors. Evidence can look compelling but might turn out to be false, as it did last July, when DPRK looked the obvious culprit but seemed to have little to do with the events that compromised US and ROK assets. That matter is still unresolved.</p>
<p>If cyber is to be considered under the Laws of Armed Conflict, it has to meet the conditions of military necessity, distinction, proportionality, discrimination, perfidy, and neutrality. It is less than clear how these conditions are met and respected by cyber ops. So, I agree, there are big issues to tackle here, but I&#8217;m fairly certain that declaring war rather than a more nuanced approach is not useful at this stage.</p>
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		<title>By: Gunrunner</title>
		<link>http://kingsofwar.org.uk/2010/03/words-matter-says-uk-office-of-cyber-security/comment-page-1/#comment-4872</link>
		<dc:creator>Gunrunner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingsofwar.org.uk/?p=3664#comment-4872</guid>
		<description>I guess I was one of the detractors.  I do follow the world of cyber, as it is an essential element of national security and, darn it all, it is interesting.  

Is a hack-attack just some thrill seeker, attempted theft or is it an act of war?

Not all attacks are acts of war, that is a given, but given enough attacks, with analysis showing the true destructive aim of the attack, it becomes an act of war--such is the case with China and North Korea and their attacks against the US.

Think of it this way, if in November 1944, armed Japanese Zeros were making repeated runs at Pear Harbor but were intercepted and turned back, wouldn&#039;t those attempts be considered an act of war?  Of course.  Same with cyber attacks because those attacks can cause physical damage and death, not to mention economic collapse and threaten national survival.

The challenge is to determine quickly if the attacks are deliberate acts of a hostile power or movement.  Back to the analogy:  We need to know if the incoming aircraft are a flight of 99&#039;s (http://www.ninety-nines.org/), or Zeros.  If Zeros, it is War.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I was one of the detractors.  I do follow the world of cyber, as it is an essential element of national security and, darn it all, it is interesting.  </p>
<p>Is a hack-attack just some thrill seeker, attempted theft or is it an act of war?</p>
<p>Not all attacks are acts of war, that is a given, but given enough attacks, with analysis showing the true destructive aim of the attack, it becomes an act of war&#8211;such is the case with China and North Korea and their attacks against the US.</p>
<p>Think of it this way, if in November 1944, armed Japanese Zeros were making repeated runs at Pear Harbor but were intercepted and turned back, wouldn&#8217;t those attempts be considered an act of war?  Of course.  Same with cyber attacks because those attacks can cause physical damage and death, not to mention economic collapse and threaten national survival.</p>
<p>The challenge is to determine quickly if the attacks are deliberate acts of a hostile power or movement.  Back to the analogy:  We need to know if the incoming aircraft are a flight of 99&#8242;s (<a href="http://www.ninety-nines.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ninety-nines.org/</a>), or Zeros.  If Zeros, it is War.</p>
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		<title>By: From the Listening Post&#8230; 03/12/2010 (a.m.) &#171; Sean Lawson, Ph.D.</title>
		<link>http://kingsofwar.org.uk/2010/03/words-matter-says-uk-office-of-cyber-security/comment-page-1/#comment-4854</link>
		<dc:creator>From the Listening Post&#8230; 03/12/2010 (a.m.) &#171; Sean Lawson, Ph.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 07:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingsofwar.org.uk/?p=3664#comment-4854</guid>
		<description>[...] Words Matter, Says UK Office of Cyber Security [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Words Matter, Says UK Office of Cyber Security [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Formerly Grant</title>
		<link>http://kingsofwar.org.uk/2010/03/words-matter-says-uk-office-of-cyber-security/comment-page-1/#comment-4851</link>
		<dc:creator>Formerly Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 00:17:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingsofwar.org.uk/?p=3664#comment-4851</guid>
		<description>Have to agree on the words. Of course we don&#039;t have many good definitions for a very new technology and very new crime, but if we officially and legally label something as war than the governments would be expected to respond, even if it wouldn&#039;t be worth it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have to agree on the words. Of course we don&#8217;t have many good definitions for a very new technology and very new crime, but if we officially and legally label something as war than the governments would be expected to respond, even if it wouldn&#8217;t be worth it.</p>
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